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For some reasons I though that stackexchange is a place where you can talk to experts. How is that possible, experts seem not to be willing to read or to understand: https://area51.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/27019/problem-with-the-crypocurrency-community (For me, it is very unprofessional way to describe different topics and communities/technology, it already is a provocation in it's statement)

I decided to create a new question here, where people are supposed not to have a problem understanding this topic.

We have here indeed experts who say that ion is the same as bitcoin: https://area51.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/27019/problem-with-the-crypocurrency-community

Now, as some experts do suggest that all coins and all topics of all coins should belong here . Great, lets try it out.

I do assume that those questions are offtopic here for this channel as well as some other channel like neocoin, ethereum and dodgecoin.

Here are my questions:

  1. Reading through stackexchange proposal, I start to get a feeling that many experts do believe, ethereum is a blockchain or maybe that bitcoin is blockchain. Now my newbie :) question to the experts: Is bitcoin blockchain? If not, why should I believe to get a possibility to talk to experts?

  2. What is a blockchain/ethereum/bitcoin/ion coin?

  3. What has ion coin to do with bitcoin?

  4. When ion coin was attacked, thief was stealing many coins. On bitcointalk trolls trolled about it. Nobody of bitcoin community steped in to help out. When we stopped the attack 2 things happened:

yobit was lying and claming that they lost 100 btc because nobody informed them about setting back the blockchain. This is not true, buth with for me yobit had a motive. Since months yobit was stealing ion on their platform and they never replied to anybody for hostaging coins, they banned those who asked.

Very funny was, when attack was prevented and fixes imlpemented, there was a setback in blockchain, which was also properly communicated. There is nobody known to me except same group of trolls on bitcointalk which were complaining very much about the setback and even were suggesting to let thief get his stolen coins, which is very curious. With that, there are already 2 actors which clearly show their motives in public, one of them seems to be supported not only by bitcoin community but a platform on bitcointalk is provided for such questionable agenda.

So far about thief and how bitcointalk's community was acting. Nobody came to help or even to try helping. Why not? Do bitcointalk devs follow any ethics and if which? Is it the same for ion?

Those facts can only tell me that no, neither bitcoin nor another coin should be in one channel, unless they are 100% identical (clones) where there is not known to me that there are 2 different coins, using different blockchains and at the end being the same. This is simply not possible.

Now I would like to ask some for sure off-topic questions, the point is that I would like you (bitcoin.stackexchange) channel to reply me if those are ontopic and if, then reply please:

  1. What are electrons of ion coin?
  2. What are atoms of ion coin?
  3. What are masternodes of ion coin?
  4. Is PoS the same which bitcoin uses? (I know this question is silly, for those who read and dont know, bitcoin uses PoW not PoS)
  5. Can you explain me the difference of blackcoin's PoS2.0 and PoS3.0 and which and why is used for ion coin?
  6. How does staking work in ion coin?
  7. Why did bitcoin community never helped out ion, especially if it was attacked?
  8. There is a ton of other coins outside which never implemented a fix, mostly because they do not know? Why does stackexchange community think, that this is on-topic for bitcoin's channel?

I guess I could continue with the list of off-topic questions but let's keep it simple, I think those question are enough to define if ion coin should be here, in this channel.

My opinion is that it is straight wrong to mix up coins in bitcoin's channel as well as it would produce only trash.

I was one of the people who stepped in to help them out, we applied a fix and implemented new algorithm which is publicly available. There are no ion developers who you could discuss some topics with, like how to shape MIDAS algo and how does such algorithm fit to a PoS coin. Beside that, there were many settings not properly set or lets say left as test values. Those are all topics which are very specific and have less to do with bitcoin.

I am sure, nobody here would mind to talk about those topics in details, as well as how and why we did what we did to implement a fix. However, stack exchange community is even the opinion that such question is just a copy of that: https://area51.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/27025/there-are-already-one-for-bitcoin-and-another-one-for-dodge-coin

I might be stupid, but can somebody of you point me out, how is the question the question and those answers a copy of: https://area51.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/27025/there-are-already-one-for-bitcoin-and-another-one-for-dodge-coin

I do not want to be rude, but for me it sounds more like if somebody who wrote it has not much knowledge about the topic, where I would gladly discuss about those questions, but I dont get it, how could Ion related questions, technical or simple, how can they be ontopic here?

That is the proposal: http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/111266/ioncoin

That is troll thread, where bitcointalk moderator followed the agenda of trolls which included crime like doxxing, usage of stolen documents, instignation, theft and more which I really dont want to point out here. They also banned everybody who was trying to make any conversation, 378 pages of trolling and crime, enjoy: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1443633.0

With such support of bitcoin community I understand that ion community does not see themself as "bitcoin". I guess it would raise their value a lot :), however, if it is really what bitcoin community on stackexchange thinks then I will gladly ask to take down the proposal and send all ion holders (beginners/devs) here to this channel. Would that be correct?

migrated from bitcoin.stackexchange.com Jul 12 '17 at 15:09

This question came from our site for Bitcoin crypto-currency enthusiasts.

6

Reading through stackexchange proposal, I start to get a feeling that many experts do believe, ethereum is a blockchain or maybe that bitcoin is blockchain. Now my newbie :) question to the experts: Is bitcoin blockchain? If not, why should I believe to get a possibility to talk to experts?

Yes, Bitcoin is a blockchain. Ethereum is also a blockchain.

What is a blockchain/ethereum/bitcoin/ion coin?

A blockchain is a database with some synchronization and validation logic on top of it. It's usually but not always byzantine fault tolerant. It's usually but not always used to implement some kind of currency. 'Blockchain' is a really broad word.

Bitcoin is a blockchain which implements a currency and a simple scripting system.

Ethereum is a blockchain which implements a currency and a Turing-complete scripting system.

What has ion coin to do with bitcoin?

Ion seems to be a Bitcoin-based currency. Looking at one of the source files of Ion, there is a comment saying that the file was written by Pieter Wuille, one of the developers of Bitcoin.

When ion coin was attacked, thief was stealing many coins. On bitcointalk trolls trolled about it. Nobody of bitcoin community steped in to help out. When we stopped the attack 2 things happened:

yobit was lying and claming that they lost 100 btc because nobody informed them about setting back the blockchain. This is not true, buth with for me yobit had a motive. Since months yobit was stealing ion on their platform and they never replied to anybody for hostaging coins, they banned those who asked.

Very funny was, when attack was prevented and fixes imlpemented, there was a setback in blockchain, which was also properly communicated. There is nobody known to me except same group of trolls on bitcointalk which were complaining very much about the setback and even were suggesting to let thief get his stolen coins, which is very curious. With that, there are already 2 actors which clearly show their motives in public, one of them seems to be supported not only by bitcoin community but a platform on bitcointalk is provided for such questionable agenda.

So far about thief and how bitcointalk's community was acting. Nobody came to help or even to try helping. Why not? Do bitcointalk devs follow any ethics and if which? Is it the same for ion?

Why did members of the Bitcoin community not help? Speaking for myself, I didn't know that Ion was attacked at all. Further, there was no way I could have found out, since none of the blogs that I read would've covered it.

Do bitcointalk moderators have ethics? I assume so. Every time I've interacted with them, they have been friendly and nice.

Having never talked to Ion devs, I have no idea if they have any ethics.

Those facts can only tell me that no, neither bitcoin nor another coin should be in one channel, unless they are 100% identical (clones) where there is not known to me that there are 2 different coins, using different blockchains and at the end being the same. This is simply not possible.

Various members of the site have expressed that opinion. I see your point, but I don't agree.

Now I would like to ask some for sure off-topic questions, the point is that I would like you (bitcoin.stackexchange) channel to reply me if those are ontopic and if, then reply please:

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 are on topic. 7 is off-topic, because it is argumentative and open-ended. (Even internally unified groups have multiple different motives for an action, and Bitcoin is not internally unified.) I don't understand question 8, (what fix?) so I can't tell you either way.

I was one of the people who stepped in to help them out, we applied a fix and implemented new algorithm which is publicly available. There are no ion developers who you could discuss some topics with, like how to shape MIDAS algo and how does such algorithm fit to a PoS coin. Beside that, there were many settings not properly set or lets say left as test values. Those are all topics which are very specific and have less to do with bitcoin.

Yes, that's a weakness of this system. If no-one on the site knows the answer to your question, it won't be answered.

But you can change that, you know. If there's a critical mass of people who know how the unique parts of Ion work, and they ask and answer questions about it, then questions will get answered.

I am sure, nobody here would mind to talk about those topics in details, as well as how and why we did what we did to implement a fix. However, stack exchange community is even the opinion that such question is just a copy of that: [..]

I might be stupid, but can somebody of you point me out, how is the question the question and those answers a copy of: [..]

Both questions are of the form, "Given that we have all of these cryptocurrency websites, why don't we merge them into one big site?"

I do not want to be rude, but for me it sounds more like if somebody who wrote it has not much knowledge about the topic, where I would gladly discuss about those questions, but I dont get it, how could Ion related questions, technical or simple, how can they be ontopic here?

We have a list of things that are on topic: https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/help/on-topic

Also, you might want to read the tour page: https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/tour

That is troll thread, where bitcointalk moderator followed the agenda of trolls which included crime like doxxing, usage of stolen documents, instignation, theft and more which I really dont want to point out here. They also banned everybody who was trying to make any conversation, 378 pages of trolling and crime, enjoy: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1443633.0

I don't want to read 300 pages of a thread. It doesn't sound relevant to what we're discussing.

  • We see another restriction of this forum, I replied to both of you, please read: pastebin.com/nFVsq7MY . I can't comment here it is to long. Another downsid of stackexchange :( – CEVAP Jul 12 '17 at 18:43
  • Your defintion of blockchain is wrong. According to your implication that all coins are definition of the blockchain, why isn't then bitcoin a part of some predecessors of decentralized ideas, like GPG, i2p? They use same technologies like bitcoin, only not the blockchain itself ... Please reply to questions 1-7 if you think they are ontopic and reexplain me please what blockchain is. I claim you did explain me something wrong – CEVAP Jul 12 '17 at 19:33
  • @CEVAP: I don't comprehend what you're trying to achieve. As Nick said, a large part of your questions would be considered on-topic on our site. If you have questions such as 1-6, please ask them on the main site separately as their own topics. Questions about the topic go on the main site, questions about the main site go here. You're here on "meta" where we talk about the main site. – Murch Jul 12 '17 at 20:04
  • Ok, let me ask here, what are atoms? Please reply me here what they are, what they have to do with crypto at all or with blockchain at all? – CEVAP Jul 12 '17 at 20:40
  • Another question? If I ask about gaming, like my gravity game does not work. How is that ontopic in bitcoin channel? What do have games to do with bitcoin?? – CEVAP Jul 12 '17 at 20:42
  • @CEVAP meta is where the site itself is discussed. main is where on-topic questions are answered. – Nick ODell Jul 12 '17 at 20:46
  • 1
    @CEVAP On hyperledger event in Amsterdam, MIT professor ignored my questions I don't know this guy, and I can't help you if he's ignoring you. I would say, that if it is trolled on bitcoin's forum and moderators as well as users do know it, then it can't be simply true that bitcoin community was not aware of this. People are very aware that bitcointalk has a very low signal-to-noise ratio. That's why I don't post there, or read it. – Nick ODell Jul 12 '17 at 20:48
  • @CEVAP Also, I said that question 7 is off-topic. – Nick ODell Jul 12 '17 at 21:03
  • Maybe my laguage skills add addtional confusion. I neither expected you to answer nor to comment on what I said in Amsterdam. Just to clear, I would have written exactly what I said if I would want to talk about. The point was, that you can't deny a qualification of somebody who clearly is qualified and academic. I am also not slamming anybody, I just bring to point a very big problem for cryto adaption (especially as non digital currency) which is ignorance and not knowing something. In science is no place for ignorance. That is at least my opion. – CEVAP Jul 12 '17 at 21:03
  • You can think and assume whatever you want, everybody is free. I have enough proof for my words. But dont you see? You already implicate that they are trolling for good reason. This is double standard. Such stance could influence a lot if you threat them (ion community) that way and invite to come here to get helped, this sounds more like a bad joke if you ask me. This is not the way I would expect you guys and girls here to offer communication platform and for sure it is not democratic, as your base is only assumption. – CEVAP Jul 12 '17 at 21:07
  • I am sorry, I wrote 7 by mistake. Yes, please reply to 1-6 if that is not making you big efforts or time loss – CEVAP Jul 12 '17 at 21:08
  • 2
    @CEVAP That's not how this works. This site is meta. This site is questions about the main site. Questions 1-6 would be ontopic on the main site, but not here. The main site is for questions about Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies. – Nick ODell Jul 12 '17 at 21:09
  • Ok, I will not ask those questions there as I simply hate spamming and I do threat offtopic questions as spam, no matter if you tell me that this is ok as it is me who is responsible for what I write. I do not know what to suggest, I would say my question was not replied and we got to nowhere which would only strengthen my opinion that it is huge mistake to put all coins and technologies into one basket. However, I would be happy if you reply to those 6 questions, as there is something offtopic in them, then it is not offtopic to reply here. I am new here according to my rep, please suggest. – CEVAP Jul 12 '17 at 21:12
  • Issue 11: Beside that, it was migrated to here with the meaning that questions are about the site, they were actually not. They are about ion. – CEVAP Jul 12 '17 at 21:54
  • @CEVAP: Why do you think it's offtopic, when both Nick and I have explicitly told you that it is on-topic. – Murch Jul 12 '17 at 23:16
4

Bitcoin.SE is a site to collect questions and answers about cryptocurrencies. Some other projects in the space have felt that their use cases and user bases are sufficiently different to create their own sites and have successfully done so.

If you want to establish a new cryptocurrency as a topic on Bitcoin.SE, I would suggest that you ask and answer a few questions about it here. Content on Bitcoin.SE is organized by tags such as . If we don't have a tag for it yet and you don't have enough reputation to create one yet, feel free to request one to be created by flagging for "moderator attention". Once there is a tag for your topic, you should subscribe to receive email notifications when new questions are asked about the topic. Whenever you see interesting questions about the topic that are on-topic here, feel free to post them as your own question here and answer them. You could then link them to get people here, or might get some people searching the web to find them, this may attract more activity for the tag.

  • We see another restriction of this forum, I replied to both of you, please read: pastebin.com/nFVsq7MY . I can't comment here it is to long. Another downsid of stackexchange :( – CEVAP Jul 12 '17 at 18:43
  • Thanks for suggestion but it misses 100% the point. We are here because we do not want to be dependant on bitcoin's community. You have already in your name bitcoin and bitcoin's community was the only one which did harm this project and still continue to do so. I hope you understand my issues, but if you or anybody ads ion to bitcoin.se, let me know about it please. – CEVAP Jul 12 '17 at 19:36
  • 1
    @CEVAP: Well, I've read your post thrice, and I still don't get what you want then. You're providing large amounts of information about all sorts of unrelated side-events. Could you please just state your issue in ~3 sentences at the top of your post? – Murch Jul 12 '17 at 20:00
  • Issue 1: bitcoin is not blockchain – CEVAP Jul 12 '17 at 20:19
  • Issue 2: I try to figure out which points are offtopic for this channel – CEVAP Jul 12 '17 at 20:19
  • Issue 3: Many points of ion have nothing to do with blockchain, bitcoin or any other crypto currency – CEVAP Jul 12 '17 at 20:20
  • Issue 4: Community (bitcoin) which only harms until now ion, why should we have channel here? On bitcointalk they banned everybody and claim devs left. I hate double standards and sadly they exist also on stackexchange – CEVAP Jul 12 '17 at 20:21
  • Issue 5: Democratic process can go very wrong if not all aspects are correctly handled. Speaking about putting all coins to bitcoin – CEVAP Jul 12 '17 at 20:21
  • Issue 5: If one channel, then it should be probaly Blockchain, which includes all projects, including bitcoin. Why is bitcoin different? I read here that they are all the same, defined as blockchain by comments (see above). – CEVAP Jul 12 '17 at 20:23
  • Issue 6: It is not about bitcoin, it is about ion what I talk about. Your answer and not understanding what I talk about is good point to show that ion related topics are not being handled correctly here. And then you might even mark it as offtopic and close. It would again harm only ion itself if they come here for a question. – CEVAP Jul 12 '17 at 20:24
  • Issue 7: I am interested in discussion. I do threat it as incomplete answer if you tell me that 1-7 (I know it was not you) is ontopic. I asked, please reply and I do claim it has nothing to do with bitcoin and it would be 100% offtopic – CEVAP Jul 12 '17 at 20:25
  • Issue 8: Looking at issues 1-7, does this channel or some other have agenda to keep everything under control, like it was on bitcointalk. Are you in some race to be defined as "Blockchain" before "Ethereum"? As how else could you explain then implication that both of them are the definition of the same, then they must be the same. Clear fact proving you it is wrong, they are not same just look at them, as well at source code like at the chain itself. – CEVAP Jul 12 '17 at 20:28
  • @CEVAP: Bitcoin.SE is a question and answer platform for "cryptocurrencies". Is "ion" an opensource cryptocurrency project? Then it is on-topic here. If you disagree on the definition of 'blockchain' with someone, I don't see how that is relevant. – Murch Jul 12 '17 at 20:31
  • thanks for asking and elaborating. I hope I did wrote it now in a more understandable way. Please ask if you have any further questions. – CEVAP Jul 12 '17 at 20:32
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    @CEVAP: You seem to be severely confused. We are an open community that provides a platform that collects knowledge about cryptocurrencies. We don't want anything from you. Nobody forces you to be here, or on SE in general. Frankly, I had never heard of ion before yesterday. We have nothing to do with your proposal, except that people have told you that your topic would be partially on-topic here. We have confirmed that.— Now you demand that we champion your project. I don't see why you would be entitled to that. I volunteer my free time here, and have zero interest in your project. – Murch Jul 12 '17 at 23:15
1

For some reasons I though that stackexchange is a place where you can talk to experts.

Others my disagree, but I feel that this is what you are mistaken about.

I feel that a lot of people make the mistake that Bitcoin SE is a site for conversations...but it's not. It's a site where users are dedicated to building a useful repository of answers to the many questions that come up in realm of cryptocurrencies. It's a community with a goal and a purpose, and therefore some rules need to be enforced. Conversations still happen, but they should be based on providing accurate information to each other, not in arguing a point or expressing opinions.

We are certainly not the center of the Bitcoin/blockchain community, and I don't feel that is the goal. Our niche in the community is more about building a reference for people to find the information they are searching for. Some people confuse this site as a place to pitch their ideas (like BIPs) or hold long, opinionated conversations. That type of activity does not suit our goals, so it is discouraged. There are plenty of other forums for that sort of thing, but this isn't one of them.

Starting with a question about cryptocurrencies, a good rule of thumb for what is on-topic would be "does this question lead to an answer that someone else may one day be searching for". Questions like

Why did bitcoin community never helped out ion, especially if it was attacked?

clearly don't lead in that direction. This is an unaswerable, loaded question, and the most traffic it will receive would be a fight in the comments. It's not appropriate for this forum.

Even so, it doesn't hurt to try asking an off-topic question, so long as they aren't inflammatory. Stack Exchange is community moderated, and off-topic questions get closed and voted down rather quickly. If this community decides a question is off topic, don't feel hurt or discouraged. You can learn from the comments and the reason for closing, and then post on-topic questions. This community welcomes new questions, and certainly new sub-topics, but it's the people posting questions and answers here who ultimately decide whether the question is appropriate for this forum.

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